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New 11% Tax for all NPC Corps

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 05:44:00 - [1] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Kithaca Simple. Mine something. Those that are doing that aren't impacted. Those that isk-farm take a bit of a hit. Good on CCP for this one. Because I choose to not participate in 0.0 blobfests and lolpolitics, I should punished for trying to make my way in empire? I don't follow your logic. Mining, highsec, hulk = 10m/hr at the very most. Missioning, highec, marauder = 50m/hr. I'm not an "isk farmer" in any sense of the word and the only hit I'm taking is social. CCP is either making me be a) poorer or b) anti-social. My good God, you DO realize that there are player corps operating in high sec, right?! No one is that oblivious. Your get kudos for funny value, but thats about it.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 06:17:00 - [2] Originally by: AstroPhobic My good God, you DO realize that they have taxes too Not all of them. Originally by: AstroPhobic and have the ability to shoot me whenever they like, and have new recruits that can join, gank me for the lols and then leave? What? Your own corp? Then do some damn research and join a good one, not a scam. Originally by: AstroPhobic Perhaps my time in EVE has made me a bit sour, but "trust nobody" comes to mind. Players corps offer me NOTHING except a chat channel, the same as an NPC corp. They also average... funny that, around the same tax as the new NPC corps. What a depressing outlook.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 17:33:00 - [3] Originally by: Michwich CCP arent trying to encourage anything, they're stealing our isk plain and simple. haha lol. You make it sound like they need to, as if they can't all just generate as much ISK into their wallets on a whim if they were so inclined. And I'm confused by the constant whining about war decs, as if non-consensual PvP wasn't a part of EVE. Seriously, they whine on and on like War Decs are something that happen to player corps DAILY. Even the assumption that it would be the end of their easy ISK existence is unwarranted.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 18:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Gonada lol 12 pages of whines sure hope ccp implements this. 14 actually. God, I'm looking forward to this.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 19:55:00 - [5] I believe the idea behind this I believe is that it will encourage some to join or form their own player corps, while those who remain have this set 11% tax as a balance to their complete and utter immunity to PvP
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:02:00 - [6] Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Uronksur Suth I believe the idea behind this I believe is that it will encourage some to join or form their own player corps, while those who remain have this set 11% tax as a balance to their complete and utter immunity to PvP Am i missing a recent change about npc corporations? Because last time i checked the only difference was not being able to be wardecced, nothing about being immune to pvp. Yes, well, in high sec then that makes you pretty much untouchable, doesn't it?
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Uronksur Suth Originally by: Furb Killer Originally by: Uronksur Suth I believe the idea behind this I believe is that it will encourage some to join or form their own player corps, while those who remain have this set 11% tax as a balance to their complete and utter immunity to PvP Am i missing a recent change about npc corporations? Because last time i checked the only difference was not being able to be wardecced, nothing about being immune to pvp. Yes, well, in high sec then that makes you pretty much untouchable, doesn't it? It is kind of like making children untouchable from pedophiles. Um. No. Because you aren't children. And if you DO want to be untouchable, there should be a COST for that immunity.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:20:00 - [8] Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Uronksur Suth Um. No. Because you aren't children. And if you DO want to be untouchable, there should be a COST for that immunity. you want to engadge with me in unconsentual pvp. You are specialized in it while I have nothing to defent myself from it (pve skill-set). you dont don¦t want to engadge in pvp with people that are on your level. It is quite alot like how pedophiles that want to touch children. Yes, you imbecile, EVE contains non-consensual PvP. CCP has stated repeatedly that this is an intended feature of the game. And comparing it to child molestation as if it breaks some rule is too stupid to be even slightly lol worthy.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Domoso This is a bad move by CCP. And if/when they implement it guess what, people are just going to form their own corps with 0% tax. And then what? You betcha, CCP is going to levy a tax on corporations to discourage such moves. No, you dimwit, because that is EXACTLY what CCP has said they want. I haven't quite decided whether that was a troll post or not.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:34:00 - [10] Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Uronksur Suth Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Uronksur Suth Um. No. Because you aren't children. And if you DO want to be untouchable, there should be a COST for that immunity. you want to engadge with me in unconsentual pvp. You are specialized in it while I have nothing to defent myself from it (pve skill-set). you dont don¦t want to engadge in pvp with people that are on your level. It is quite alot like how pedophiles that want to touch children. Yes, you imbecile, EVE contains non-consensual PvP. CCP has stated repeatedly that this is an intended feature of the game. And comparing it to child molestation as if it breaks some rule is too stupid to be even slightly lol worthy. Respond to the full thing or don¦t respond at all. So what if you aren't specialized for PvP? I don't get your point.

Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Uronksur Suth on 21/09/2009 20:43:14 Originally by: Julian Lynq Originally by: Uronksur Suth So what if you aren't specialized for PvP? I don't get your point. That: - You are specialized in it. - You dont want to engadge with people of your level. I have neither: - Skills for it (PVE skills) - Nor Experience. but the important part really is that you want to engadge me rather than people of your "level"/experience Well, not me actually. But I'm not sure, you feel like CCP should regulate PvP based on skill level? You seem to be missing the point. Non-consensual PvP is something CCP considers a feature of the game. Just because you don't want to participate doesn't mean you should be protected. And for the love of God, its spelled "Engage" EDIT: Oh look they agree with me Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia Originally by: Julian Lynq It is kind of like making children untouchable from pedophiles. These type of arguments do nothing to convince CCP you have a point.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 20:57:00 - [12] Originally by: Julian Lynq Edited by: Julian Lynq on 21/09/2009 20:48:55 Originally by: Uronksur SuthWell, not me actually. But I'm not sure, you feel like CCP should regulate PvP based on skill level? [:? You seem to be missing the point. Non-consensual PvP is something CCP considers a feature of the game. Just because you don't want to participate doesn't mean you should be protected. No I was not making that point. The point is not that I want protection, but that the reason you are for the change is because you want to attack thoose that cannot defend. The main point however remains that: The proposed "fix" will not achieve the stated goal. Yes, and as for your wanting protection, this change means that you actually have to pay for it now. And if you don't want to pay, feel free to join a player corp with a tax rate more to your liking. Or hell, just train Corp Management 1 and make your own.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Julian Lynq Again, I don¦t want protection. I want that everyone sees that you are a fail pvp¦er who needs to kill pve players so he can at least get a killmail too and is additionally not intelligent enough to grasp that this change will not in any way produce more targets for him. In short: the reason you are in favour of this change is exactly as void as the change being sucessfull in fullfilling the stated goal. The ironic thing is I don't PvP. I couldn't care less about killmails. I'm in favor of this because I think NPC corps need some balancing to account for their immunity to war deccs. And since there are so many people complaining about it, yes, I imagine that some people will move into player corps, or at least start their own.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 21:28:00 - [14] Well, I suppose I think, and what CCP is hoping, is that while there will be a lot of people just creating one man corps, there will be at least a FEW who do join real corps. And possibly some of those those one man corps might eventually grow, merge or enter alliances with each other, or recruit their friends out of the NPC corp.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 22:06:00 - [15] But what exactly would be a good carrot that would appeal to the mission runner crowd, the group this appears aimed at? And NPC corp's war dec immunity needs some sort of balancing.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 22:51:00 - [16] Edited by: Uronksur Suth on 21/09/2009 22:52:34 Originally by: Lotus Sutra The carrot doesn't outweigh the stick. Corp taxes only apply to bounties and mission rewards. So unless you only mission and don't even salvage/loot your wrecks, it really isn't that big of an issue. Originally by: Lotus Sutra When you join a player corp you also join into corp politics. Your forced to have to work with people that you may or may not like, and if you don't want to you may very well get booted out. Wow! That sounds like how real companies and corporations work too! Originally by: Lotus Sutra People are always saying that you can do so much MORE in a player corp than you can do in an NPC corp, and they are right, unfortunately [b]everything MORE that you can do is negative[/b[ except putting up a POS. Yes, group mining ops, corp discounts on ships, joining alliances, having sovereign space all is negative. right. Originally by: Constable Chang How about the cost of a wardec being inversely proportional to the number of members in the corp? So wardeccing a 1-man corp is, say, 100 million ISK. Wardeccing, say, Eve Uni (not that anyone would be so stupid) would be close to zero. Because that would make absolutely no sense
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 23:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Lotus Sutra The costs still outweigh the benefits. Why should I be pushed towards doing anything I don't want to do? Because CCP wants is trying to get people to stop hiding in NPC corps and join the rest of the game. Originally by: Lotus Sutra I don't play a **ing game to deal with politics. If I wanted to deal with politics i'd work for the government. Thats certainly a problem seeing as CCP has stated that they want to make it as realistic as possible, so politics are only going to expand. Originally by:** Lotus Sutra I don't want to work in group mining ops. I make my own ships and modules at discount already, alliances and soverign space don't interest me. Why should I be required to participate in them? Why should my hard work be used for others benefit and not solely for my own? Then don't. Stay in the NPC corp. Or form your own corp, as you've obviously already done with Sutra Inc. Although that sort of its-all-about-me attitude is a rather bizarre one to adopt in a multiplayer game Originally by: Lotus Sutra Why should MY play style be any less important than YOUR play style? It isn't less important. That would be a personal value judgment. Working by yourself is certainly less efficient though. Originally by: Lotus Sutra Again why should I be PUSHED towards doing something I have no desire to do or be a part of just because someone in CCP that doesn't have a **ing clue thinks I will enjoy the game more when in fact I will enjoy the game less? CCP can do whatever they want with their game. They've decided that they want to try encouraging more people to join player corps, which are a major feature of the game, so they are eliminating one of the advantages to them by instituting an AVERAGE tax. Originally by:** Lotus Sutra Effectively CCP is saying my 60-90 a month is less valuable than yours. You do realize that I understand that this statement has nothing to do with the issue and is just some emotional red herring to make you seem like a martyr, right?
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.21 23:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Daemonspirit Originally by: Rellik B00n Originally by: Malcanis OK how about this, if they dont want to PvP, then can leave the corp and immediately be safe. However they cant mine, convert LP, buy or sell anything on the market or create public contracts. Which should be fine, because they dont WANT to PvP, right? And all of those things are PvP. Or maybe they actually want to PvP; PvP my wallet, PvP my mineral resources, PvP my market alt, PvP my industry margins, PvP my invention profits, but gain free no-consequence immunity from PvPing my ship. It's fine for a big established industrialist to grief my little ammo building operation, but it's not fine for me to shoot his supply hauler? He gets to be immune to my PvP, but I dont get to be immune to his? HERE IT IS AGAIN, IS IT BEGINNING TO GO IN YET? NO? Originally by: Malcanis OK how about this, if they dont want to PvP, then can leave the corp and immediately be safe. However they cant mine, convert LP, buy or sell anything on the market or create public contracts. Which should be fine, because they dont WANT to PvP, right? And all of those things are PvP. Or maybe they actually want to PvP; PvP my wallet, PvP my mineral resources, PvP my market alt, PvP my industry margins, PvP my invention profits, but gain free no-consequence immunity from PvPing my ship. It's fine for a big established industrialist to grief my little ammo building operation, but it's not fine for me to shoot his supply hauler? He gets to be immune to my PvP, but I dont get to be immune to his? I THINK THAT PRETTY MUCH COVERS NPC CORP IMMUNITY, NOW HOWS ABOUT WE GET BACK TO THE TEARS PLEASE. and this changes what? The percentage of active accounts in NPC corps (according to the dev blog quoted earlier, which I STILL can't be arsed to go look for) is somewhere around 28%... Of that 28%, how many are alts of people that have no problem ganking your dam wallet from where they are at? Quiet a bunch I imagine... And this STILL does NOTHING to address those (valid) concerns, because it doesn't address anything about those issues... You may be right about it not working... that kinda remains to be seen. But really, having 0% tax rate in NPC corps when the average is 10% makes no sense anyways. Personally I think most of the emorage is motivated by the fact that mission runners are losing one of the things that makes NPC corps so advantageous for them.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.22 01:01:00 - [19] Originally by: Michwich But this should bother everybody, today is not you they steal from, but tommorow it will be and then how will you say they're justified? You cant. This is nothing more than to compensate for slow isk sales due to the economy, the cost being always passed down to the bottom - you the subscriber. Oh yes CCP sells isk, but thats another discussion for another thread or even forum. But lets pretend they're seriouse and just want to take money out of circulation or lower the rate that it comes in for whatever reason.. Wouldnt it be better to give us something to spend the isk on instead? You know like maybe a fully fleshed out PVE game, with avatars to dress and sex out. Taking the money flat out just seems lazy. What are we paying for again? I honestly can't figure out what on earth you are talking about. But even though you are almost certainly trolling, I'm going to highlight some of the more abysmally stupid/nonsensical things just for kicks.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.22 02:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Altie McName Originally by: Ukucia In addition, you're ignoring the folks who just prefer to be lone wolves. Nothing screams lone wolf more than being alone in your single man 0% tax corp. why the hell would someone who considers themselves a "lone wolf" play an MMORPG in the first place?

Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.22 02:19:00 - [21] Originally by: Ukucia Originally by: Uronksur Suth Originally by: Altie McName Originally by: Ukucia In addition, you're ignoring the folks who just prefer to be lone wolves. Nothing screams lone wolf more than being alone in your single man 0% tax corp. why the hell would someone who considers themselves a "lone wolf" play an MMORPG in the first place? There is no single player game that adequately simulates a real market used by real humans. The folks playing the industrial or trader roles in the game don't have much need of a corp, yet need other humans to create a vibrant market. So you like the market created by the players, but God forbid you should have to interact or work with them at all?
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.22 03:08:00 - [22] Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Altie McName Originally by: Ukucia In addition, you're ignoring the folks who just prefer to be lone wolves. Nothing screams lone wolf more than being alone in your single man 0% tax corp. Or maybe some of us don't fit well into corp molds such as "be in this area" "participate in this activity" "gimme all ur taxes for uhhh - corp fund stuff, CEO BSNS". Then try joining a corp that doesn't do that. Jeez... If you actually tried looking, you'd find there are quite a few corps that are specifically "do what you want" for people who aren't into that kind of stuff.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.22 03:55:00 - [23] Originally by: Lotus Sutra CCP is telling me, my style of play is valued less than a PVP players (even though I have a PVP alt) style of play. CCP is telling me the sandbox they are so proud of isn't really a sandbox at all, that they just call it that (lies.. nothing new here from CCP, remember the feature that became a bug and those who used it were suddenly called exploiters?). Yes, playing solo in a multiplayer game is admittedly ridiculous and not going to be valued. It will not be as effective, profitable or efficient. If you want to play solo, play a single player game. Originally by: F15T0 If this game is a Sandbox as CCP says, that means it is open to ALL styles of play, not ONE style of play. All styles of play that make sense and WORK in a multiplayer game, fool. Originally by: F15T0 Religion: My way is the only way, your way is evil. Convert to my way or I will kill you. Sandbox: All ways are good. Have fun. Thanks for the completely random anti-religion rant. Originally by: F15T0 So which is it CCP? A sandbox or a religion? It can't be both. What? Are you trolling now? You are probably one of the most annoyingly melodramatic posters I've seen recently.
Uronksur Suth Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate	Posted - 2009.09.22 18:10:00 - [24] Originally by: Ukucia Originally by: RansomList Edited by: RansomList on 22/09/2009 16:05:04 Tears Dont cave in CCP, this will make EVE a better game in the long run. Quote: It has enough people talking about it though. Seriously if this changes nothing then why all the whines Carebears live in a permanent state of terror. If the CCP folks are actually bothering to read this thread, I'd like to point out that most of those supporting this change are juvenile little morons like this one. Should it shock the devs that some of us don't want to spend all our 'social interaction' with these kids? Well, when your spending about 13 bucks a month on a multiplayer game, yes.

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